10 biggest lies about Jesus

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10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

Post by DNS »

Good list by this youtuber, but for number one I would have put:

1. The story of the immaculate conception.

There were stories of immaculate conception, gods having children with mortal women hundreds of years before Jesus was born. It's very likely the Christian mythologies were borrowed from Greek mythology.

For example, in Greek mythology there were numerous reports of anthropomorphic gods impregnating virgins and creating hybrid god-human children. For example, Dionysus is said to be the son of Zeus and a mortal human and the story existed over a thousand years before the Christian myth of the immaculate conception of Jesus.

I imagine he didn't want to be too controversial or upset too many Christians.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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I's nice to see a good Christian man deeply exploring such questions of the Bible and Jesus' life. Most of the things He is saying make sense, but aren't really pertaining to "lies", but moreso points of view, possible explorations of truth, and things that may be open to doubt.

Also with regards to the Immaculate Conception, of course that is real and did happen. It is something God has been able to do since time immemorial, children are born by all kinds of ways when God is fully involved, and many times it is the Holy Spirit being what beings the child into being. If a good Christian woman seriously wants the Son of God to be Her Son, and is worthy, She can pray to God and receive the Love and benediction of having Jesus Christ as Her Child. These are some of the more confidential Christian Truths.

And the Greek Gods are real, taking a different form back then, but the Same personalities as those found in Christian Angeldom and Apostleship, and Godhood, as well as fully akin to the personalities found in even the Buddhist and Hindu archetypes. The followers of such Gods and Godesses may change, but the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas that they are continue on and stay the Same, from the non-regressive state of Buddhahood. Om.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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In my view the biggest misrepresentation about Jesus are claims for his historicity.

The evidence from our earliest sources - the seven authentic letters of Paul - show no awareness on Paul's part that Jesus ever lived on geophysical earth. On the contrary, Paul never mentions a "life of Christ" and says that people only started to Jesus in revelations after he had "died and rose". Died and rose in the lower heavens, that is - not on earth. Paul never blames Pilate or the Sanhedrin for Jesus's execution, but he does blame demons, whom he calls "Powers", "Principalities" and "Archons".

In none of Paul's letters does he refer to examples or teachings from a historical Jesus - even when such examples and teachings would have settled many of Paul's congregational problems. "Brethren, let us follow the Lord's example/teaching on this issue" is a course of action never recommended by Paul. Nor does Paul show any awareness of the Gospel Jesus. Paul never mentions Jesus's baptism by John, Jesus's parables, exorcisms, cures, his conflicts with "priests, scribes and Pharisees" - none of the things without which the Gospels would be empty husks. Yet Paul knows nothing of the Gospel Jesus.

Historicists unrealistically cling to Paul's supposed mention of Jesus's biological brother, James, and that Jesus had been "born of woman, under the Law", but these two "historical references" turn out to be, at best, flimsily ambiguous. While Paul claimed to know Cephas, John, and James - "the Jerusalem Pillars" - he never claimed that they were disciples who were selected by an earthly Jesus and traveled with him as the Gospels depict.

On the contrary, Paul never calls the "Pillars" disciples - he consistently refers to them as Apostles. Paul defines Apostle not as a disciple who followed an earthly master, but rather as a person - just like Paul - who had received heavenly visions and revelations of an other-worldly, angelic "Son", and who had received from that celestial being a calling or mission to spread the original Good News that the Son had deceived the demons into killing him in the lower heavens, and that God raised the Son back up, thus defeating the demons in spite of themselves.

The original Jesus was not a historical person, but a cosmic archetype, a primordial angel whom the contemporary philosopher Philo of Alexandria (as John the Evangelist was to do) called "a second god" and "the Word/Logos".

Subjective, personal mystical experience of the celestial Christ preceded his later reification into the historical person invented by the Gospels. That is why I say that the greatest misrepresentation about Jesus is that he was a historical being on earth, whereas originally he was believed to be, and experienced as, an angel who "incarnated" not on physical earth, but in the lower heavens. And a successful misrepresentation it became,once the Church embraced the Gospels as accurate sources for a historical "life of Christ", since are still living with the (unjustified) assumption of a historical Jesus. The Gospels-cum-Church did their work well.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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As to the historicity question, there is a minority view that Blavatsky and her Gurus mentioned:
[Jesus of Lud] or Lydda. Reference is made here to the Rabbinical tradition in the
Babylonian Gemara, called Sepher Toldoth Jeshu, about Jesus being the son of one
named Pandira, and having lived a century earlier than the era called Christian,
namely, during the reign of the Jewish king Alexander Jannaeus and his wife
Salome, who reigned from the year 106 to 79 B.C. Accused by the Jews of having
learned the magic art in Egypt, and of having stolen from the Holy of Holies the
Incommunicable Name, Jehoshua (Jesus) was put to death by the Sanhedrin at
Lüd. He was stoned and then crucified on a tree, on the eve of Passover. The
narrative is ascribed to the Talmudistic authors of Sotah and Sanhedrin, p. 19,
Book of Jechiel. See Isis Unveiled, II, 201.
Another time, when HPB was visiting a cave:
Once I was in a great cave-temple in the Himalaya mountains with my Master, there were many statues of adepts there; pointing to one of them, he said: ‘This is he whom you call Jesus. We count him to be one of the greatest among us.’
So Jesus or Jehoshua did live, just much earlier and the NT narrative is a designedly inspiring myth not biography.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Nicholas wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:17 pm As to the historicity question, there is a minority view that Blavatsky and her Gurus mentioned:
[Jesus of Lud] or Lydda. Reference is made here to the Rabbinical tradition in the
Babylonian Gemara, called Sepher Toldoth Jeshu, about Jesus being the son of one
named Pandira, and having lived a century earlier than the era called Christian,
namely, during the reign of the Jewish king Alexander Jannaeus and his wife
Salome, who reigned from the year 106 to 79 B.C. Accused by the Jews of having
learned the magic art in Egypt, and of having stolen from the Holy of Holies the
Incommunicable Name, Jehoshua (Jesus) was put to death by the Sanhedrin at
Lüd. He was stoned and then crucified on a tree, on the eve of Passover. The
narrative is ascribed to the Talmudistic authors of Sotah and Sanhedrin, p. 19,
Book of Jechiel. See Isis Unveiled, II, 201.
Another time, when HPB was visiting a cave:
Once I was in a great cave-temple in the Himalaya mountains with my Master, there were many statues of adepts there; pointing to one of them, he said: ‘This is he whom you call Jesus. We count him to be one of the greatest among us.’
So Jesus or Jehoshua did live, just much earlier and the NT narrative is a designedly inspiring myth not biography.
Yes, the Gospels are myth but not meant to be "lies" because they were probably written for literate readers who were steeped in Hellenistic Judaism and midrash, so that the wise reader would know not to take the Gospel narrative as literal history, but rather as a reinterpretation of texts and heroes of the Jewish Bible.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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How do you discern Truth? Unless you are receiving Revelations from the Holy Spirit like the Original Disciples did you do not connect to the Truth of the Life of Christ in the Same Way. And if you have disputes about the Holy Spirit, with Whom are you disputing with? If you remember, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. Jesus said it in the Gospels. And if you do not believe that Jesus said this, then discern for yourself your own motives for looking into His life. Do you want His Love? You will always have it. Just accept the Love all His other Disciples are giving Him so you can be one too. Om, and God Bless you my dear friend!
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Brahma Das wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:37 am How do you discern Truth? Unless you are receiving Revelations from the Holy Spirit like the Original Disciples did you do not connect to the Truth of the Life of Christ in the Same Way. And if you have disputes about the Holy Spirit, with Whom are you disputing with? If you remember, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. Jesus said it in the Gospels. And if you do not believe that Jesus said this, then discern for yourself your own motives for looking into His life. Do you want His Love? You will always have it. Just accept the Love all His other Disciples are giving Him so you can be one too. Om, and God Bless you my dear friend!
As I indicated, Jesus's sayings and acts in the Gospels are metaphorical fictions. There is therefore no point in you attempting to convince me on grounds that I have dismissed as unhistorical.

A better response would have been to disprove my claims, e.g., show that I was wrong in saying that Paul had no awareness of a historical man on earth named "Jesus of Nazareth". I gave numerous reasons why this Pauline silence indicates that no historical Jesus ever existed. The lack of a historical Jesus in Paul is as jarring as, say, a book that claims to be all about Scientology yet never once cites its historical founder, L. Ron Hubbard ... or like a book all about the Gettysburg Address that never once mentions a historical Abraham Lincoln.

The issue of Jesus's historicity cannot be decided from narratives that are clearly, thoroughly, mythical throughout. The Gospels do not bear witness to any "Jesus of Nazareth", but only to the cleverness of the authors in attempting to assign him an actual place in history. Paul bears witness not to any Galilean sage-wonder-worker, but rather to the primordial Angel who bears God's name and executes God's judgment, and whose only "incarnation" occurred in the lower heavens, never on our geophysical earth.

In order to topple Christ myth theory, you need to establish Jesus's existence from contemporary sources outside the Gospels. To date, this has never been accomplished.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Have you ever been in Love? Do you doubt whether you Love that person? What about the billions of Christians around the world who Love Jesus Christ of Nazareth Who came in the Flesh? They are clearly Loving the real Jesus. You aren't providing any kind of evidence to your claims. And although Truth and Love need no evidence, the whole modern world of Christianity is built upon the fact that Jesus is our Lord and Savior.

How many arguments to you need to put forth that your eyes are seeing a blue sky when it is blue? That the sky in fact has an aspect of blueness to it? You could argue for years if you tried to make someone else lose faith in their perception of reality that in fact the sky is not blue but a hologram, or that it's a dream, and maybe so, maybe this reality is like a dream and isn't really real at all, but what is real is that Jesus is real, His Love is real, and it breaks through all of the illusion. Those that have experienced the Truth are witnesses to the Truth, of Jesus Christ of Nazareth Who is Real and who came in the Flesh as a witness to God and as a Jew proclaiming the Way of Christ being Christ Himself.

Don't be afraid to turn to Scripture, don't be afraid of going to Church, and don't be afraid of asking Christian people to Love you, because if you wilt away from Christianity and turn to your own misunderstood theories about life and who you you think Christ was outside of Scripture, you may border on being antichrist, and that is the gravest sin. So look deep within yourself, because the answer to what God is giving you is there. Don't bury the light in you, but let it shine, and find that Christ is the light that wants to shine in the darkness that will not overpower it. Find the light of Christ in yourself, for you can do as great of things as He did, and in fact you will do greater, and I say this without a doubt in Jesus Mighty Name.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Brahma Das wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:34 am Have you ever been in Love? Do you doubt whether you Love that person? What about the billions of Christians around the world who Love Jesus Christ of Nazareth Who came in the Flesh? They are clearly Loving the real Jesus. You aren't providing any kind of evidence to your claims. And although Truth and Love need no evidence, the whole modern world of Christianity is built upon the fact that Jesus is our Lord and Savior.

How many arguments to you need to put forth that your eyes are seeing a blue sky when it is blue? That the sky in fact has an aspect of blueness to it? You could argue for years if you tried to make someone else lose faith in their perception of reality that in fact the sky is not blue but a hologram, or that it's a dream, and maybe so, maybe this reality is like a dream and isn't really real at all, but what is real is that Jesus is real, His Love is real, and it breaks through all of the illusion. Those that have experienced the Truth are witnesses to the Truth, of Jesus Christ of Nazareth Who is Real and who came in the Flesh as a witness to God and as a Jew proclaiming the Way of Christ being Christ Himself.

Don't be afraid to turn to Scripture, don't be afraid of going to Church, and don't be afraid of asking Christian people to Love you, because if you wilt away from Christianity and turn to your own misunderstood theories about life and who you you think Christ was outside of Scripture, you may border on being antichrist, and that is the gravest sin. So look deep within yourself, because the answer to what God is giving you is there. Don't bury the light in you, but let it shine, and find that Christ is the light that wants to shine in the darkness that will not overpower it. Find the light of Christ in yourself, for you can do as great of things as He did, and in fact you will do greater, and I say this without a doubt in Jesus Mighty Name.
I see. As I suspected and put forth as a strong likelihood, your dogmatic commitment makes it impossible for you to debate the issue, which means that of now, I am dismissing you as a conversation partner as well as a mutual time-waster. Goodbye.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Brahma Das wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:34 am ...if you wilt away from Christianity and turn to your own misunderstood theories about life and who you you think Christ was outside of Scripture, you may border on being antichrist, and that is the gravest sin.
BD you embarrass yourself. Never mind the 'gravest sin' supposed in another. If Jesus said 'love your enemies' then you can at least be civil to a stranger online.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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BD is okay, I think he means well. He just has the wrong view of "All is One, All is Love, All is wonderful, All religions are the same, All is Pure Love" fluffy-wuffy nonsense. He wants to be Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Christian; all at the same time.

All religions are not the same. Some have very contradictory doctrines. Some make it almost a requirement to kill and eat animals; others advocate vegetarianism. Some have an impersonal god or are non-theistic; others are monotheistic or polytheistic, etc, etc.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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DNS wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:31 pm BD is okay, I think he means well. He just has the wrong view of "All is One, All is Love, All is wonderful, All religions are the same, All is Pure Love" fluffy-wuffy nonsense. He wants to be Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Christian; all at the same time.

All religions are not the same. Some have very contradictory doctrines. Some make it almost a requirement to kill and eat animals; others advocate vegetarianism. Some have an impersonal god or are non-theistic; others are monotheistic or polytheistic, etc, etc.
Nah. His real problem is that he refuses to address specific debate points, which as I said makes him an impossible debate partner and a time-waster. After I had supplied several reasons why the Gospels are not historical and cannot be used as a historical source for a historical Jesus, BD comes up with "responses" like the following:

"Don't be afraid to turn to Scripture"

No point in discussing anything with someone who has deliberately deafened himself.
Last edited by steveb1 on Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Nicholas wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:18 pm
Brahma Das wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:34 am ...if you wilt away from Christianity and turn to your own misunderstood theories about life and who you you think Christ was outside of Scripture, you may border on being antichrist, and that is the gravest sin.
BD you embarrass yourself. Never mind the 'gravest sin' supposed in another. If Jesus said 'love your enemies' then you can at least be civil to a stranger online.
Thanks. I think he was civil enough, but unwilling to speak to any of the issues I brought up. He wants to shower a debate in irrelevant rose petals and call it an "argument". That method simply allows no means of real communication.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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I don't want to argue because it seems like you have deliberately cut yourself off from knowledge that makes sense. You aren't discerning through the Holy Spirit, which is accessible to you. Don't have an issue with the Historical Jesus Christ. If you just take a few minutes to think clearly you may wash away your misunderstandings and fully accept what you are looking for in an argument, the proof of Jesus Christ, and that proof is in you, it is measured by your own Love for others, it is you in a Spiritual Aspect. You aught to understand one thing, and that is that Jesus is not hiding Himself from you, you can discern His Presence at any time, and see that He has been there all along, guiding and helping you, fully in you, Spiritually, and fully ready to guide you into the light of the Spiritual Kingdom that was meant for you, an Eternal Dwelling you deserve for Eternal Peace, Happiness, and Spiritual Enjoyment where there is no trace of pain. This material world is not our home, the Spiritual One is, Jesus Christ came in the flesh to show us that, and He payed the Ultimate Price so we could go with Him to God's Kingdom that is not of this world. One day you will be standing with me in His Kingdom, happy to be through with this material place. So be happy that Jesus will save you, because He will, that is a Promise, one He will live up to. So try to live up to understanding His life. The best way to do that is to fully become One in Quality with the Holy Spirit, and to let it fully into your Soul. The Truth of Christ can be discerned by Scripture, yes, as well as the Love between people. So treasure Love, treasure the Holy Spirit, and you will find Christ within yourself. Om.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Brahma Das wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:26 pm I don't want to argue...
Yet you do have a tendency, almost fanatical, to preach.

Do you have views & opinions or just unquestionable revelations from Within? It can be off putting and tiresome, IMHO.
Dhamma is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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DNS wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:31 pm BD is okay, I think he means well. He just has the wrong view of "All is One, All is Love, All is wonderful, All religions are the same, All is Pure Love" fluffy-wuffy nonsense. He wants to be Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Christian; all at the same time.

All religions are not the same. Some have very contradictory doctrines. Some make it almost a requirement to kill and eat animals; others advocate vegetarianism. Some have an impersonal god or are non-theistic; others are monotheistic or polytheistic, etc, etc.
I have a firm belief that all religions were set up by God. That being said, with all real Spiritual Paths being set up by Divine Providence, we are meant to accept their Truths as complementary. Rules in one religion will help another religion. A set of strict rules set up by one religious Teacher or Prophet may be built upon by the coming of another, in a similar Way someone from one religion can bridge Paths with another religion and help them understand something Spiritually that isn't well understood yet by their religious spectrum, and heal their congregation. Interfaith is important, religious tolerance is important, but what is the most important is understanding that the Same God is within us all and within all true religions, all Love, and every Spiritual Path. We are all meant to be like Christ, like Siddhartha, like Ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr., and that is possible when we accept that all of these people have the Same Love for the Same God. The God that is Love. Om.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Brahma Das wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:26 pm I don't want to argue because it seems like you have deliberately cut yourself off from knowledge that makes sense. You aren't discerning through the Holy Spirit, which is accessible to you. Don't have an issue with the Historical Jesus Christ. If you just take a few minutes to think clearly you may wash away your misunderstandings and fully accept what you are looking for in an argument, the proof of Jesus Christ, and that proof is in you, it is measured by your own Love for others, it is you in a Spiritual Aspect. You aught to understand one thing, and that is that Jesus is not hiding Himself from you, you can discern His Presence at any time, and see that He has been there all along, guiding and helping you, fully in you, Spiritually, and fully ready to guide you into the light of the Spiritual Kingdom that was meant for you, an Eternal Dwelling you deserve for Eternal Peace, Happiness, and Spiritual Enjoyment where there is no trace of pain. This material world is not our home, the Spiritual One is, Jesus Christ came in the flesh to show us that, and He payed the Ultimate Price so we could go with Him to God's Kingdom that is not of this world. One day you will be standing with me in His Kingdom, happy to be through with this material place. So be happy that Jesus will save you, because He will, that is a Promise, one He will live up to. So try to live up to understanding His life. The best way to do that is to fully become One in Quality with the Holy Spirit, and to let it fully into your Soul. The Truth of Christ can be discerned by Scripture, yes, as well as the Love between people. So treasure Love, treasure the Holy Spirit, and you will find Christ within yourself. Om.
"If you just take a few minutes to think clearly you may wash away your misunderstandings"

That's what I'm talking about. Your sheer arrogance and refusal to debate specific points.

Congratulations. You have developed your truculent false omniscience into true uncivility. Bask in the pseudo love of your make-believe Jesus, cuz yer not gettin' any from me.
Goodbye once and for all.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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Nicholas wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:37 pm
Brahma Das wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:26 pm I don't want to argue...
Yet you do have a tendency, almost fanatical, to preach.

Do you have views & opinions or just unquestionable revelations from Within? It can be off putting and tiresome, IMHO.
Tiresome, even exhausting - that is, if one attempts to communicate with BD, which in my naivete, I was doing. But now I'm done with him and am leaving him to his rose-scented land of dreams.
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Re: 10 biggest lies about Jesus

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See you in Heaven. :heart:
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