Shinto

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Lotodelsol
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Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

So, just wanting to get started here on Dharma Paths and start a new thread, about Shinto. I debated whether animism or pagan traditions was the place for this, both could work I suppose. Anyway, if anyone would like to discuss this topic please jump in. I'm learning about Shinto, too, so I'm not an expert. I lived in Japan for 3 years, so I've visited jinja (shrines) and I know the básics of how to pray at a shrine, for example. Hopefully we can share different knowledge and ideas. Looking forward to an interesting exchange of ideas!
One should become the master of one's mind rather than let one's mind master oneself.
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Nicholas
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Re: Shinto

Post by Nicholas »

This article looks like a pretty good overview of Shinto.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Shinto/

A shorter description:
Shinto (Japanese) [from shin god + to, tao way, path] The way of the gods; applied to the popular
religion in Japan prior to Buddhism. Japan was considered to be the land of the gods — a
conception current among nearly all ancient peoples, each one of which looked upon its own land
as the land of the original divine incarnations — and the ruler (mikado) as the direct descendant
and actual representative of the sun goddess (Tensho Daijin). Spiritual agencies were attributed to
all the processes of nature, and a reverential feeling inculcated toward the dead. Hero worship
took the direction in the prevalent belief that noble-minded warriors should be exalted nearly to
the position of demigods.

The shrines or temples were of simple construction, without adornment or statuary, the
outstanding characteristic being the torii or gateway always present before a temple. The gateway
was erected as a perch for the fowls offered to the deities, but the tori came to be regarded as an
offering to the deities themselves, hence as many as desired might be erected in the vicinity of a
temple.

There is much that is distinctly elevating and beautiful in the ancient Shinto religion, especially the
emphasis laid upon spiritual influences permeating the universe, so that everything that was, is, or
will be, and everything that happens, is in the last analysis the production of spiritual influences. It
was a religion notably without the ceremonial trappings of many other religious systems, for
simplicity in all things was a particular teaching of Shinto itself.
A true mind and true intent bring truth within truth. True practice and true cultivation take the truth beyond truth. True behavior and true conduct add truth to truth. In everything and every way, be true, true, true. Master Hua
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DNS
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Re: Shinto

Post by DNS »

Shintoism sounds similar to ancient Judaism / Israelite religion, in that it is mostly a tribal religion, venerating the place of its origin (Israel for Jews and Christians; Japan for Shintoism).

Judaism and Christianity became much more widespread because Israel is pretty much right smack in the middle of early civilization and spread from there. So the god of one nation of 12 tribes, Jehovah, went from being the God of Israel gradually to a universal god of all people. Whereas Shinto is primarily practiced in Japan, an island nation, largely cut-off from the rest of the world until recent history.
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Lotodelsol
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

Nicholas wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:24 pm This article looks like a pretty good overview of Shinto.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Shinto/

A shorter description:
Shinto (Japanese) [from shin god + to, tao way, path] The way of the gods; applied to the popular
religion in Japan prior to Buddhism. Japan was considered to be the land of the gods — a
conception current among nearly all ancient peoples, each one of which looked upon its own land
as the land of the original divine incarnations — and the ruler (mikado) as the direct descendant
and actual representative of the sun goddess (Tensho Daijin). Spiritual agencies were attributed to
all the processes of nature, and a reverential feeling inculcated toward the dead. Hero worship
took the direction in the prevalent belief that noble-minded warriors should be exalted nearly to
the position of demigods.

The shrines or temples were of simple construction, without adornment or statuary, the
outstanding characteristic being the torii or gateway always present before a temple. The gateway
was erected as a perch for the fowls offered to the deities, but the tori came to be regarded as an
offering to the deities themselves, hence as many as desired might be erected in the vicinity of a
temple.

There is much that is distinctly elevating and beautiful in the ancient Shinto religion, especially the
emphasis laid upon spiritual influences permeating the universe, so that everything that was, is, or
will be, and everything that happens, is in the last analysis the production of spiritual influences. It
was a religion notably without the ceremonial trappings of many other religious systems, for
simplicity in all things was a particular teaching of Shinto itself.
Interesting article, Wikipedia also has a good article on Shinto.
One should become the master of one's mind rather than let one's mind master oneself.
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Lotodelsol
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

DNS wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:33 pm Shintoism sounds similar to ancient Judaism / Israelite religion, in that it is mostly a tribal religion, venerating the place of its origin (Israel for Jews and Christians; Japan for Shintoism).

Judaism and Christianity became much more widespread because Israel is pretty much right smack in the middle of early civilization and spread from there. So the god of one nation of 12 tribes, Jehovah, went from being the God of Israel gradually to a universal god of all people. Whereas Shinto is primarily practiced in Japan, an island nation, largely cut-off from the rest of the world until recent history.
Yes, I think your observations are true. Generally indigenous religions don't spread, probably because they are focused on one group of people, and also because for the most part they don't try to spread their faith or convert others. Worship of Yahweh, God of the Israelites/Judaism became widespread because Christianity worshipped the same God but presented their faith as a universal one and tried to convert others, Islam as well.
One could also make a similar analogy between Hinduism (or the beliefs systems that we now call Hinduism) and Buddhism, (although Buddhism diverged from Hindu beliefs in many ways) Hindu beliefs are most often seen as primarily aimed at people of Indian descent (with notable exceptions), whereas Buddhism presents itself as a universal teaching, hence its spread to other lands. India, much like the near east, also is a central location in Asia, making China, Tibet, Southeast Asia etc places that Buddhism could reach relatively easily.
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Re: Shinto

Post by DNS »

My favorite graphic of world religions is the World Religions Tree:
https://000024.org/religions_tree/religions_tree_8.html

If you move to the center and down to the bottom, you can see the ideologies that started it all; the first 5 major roots and it is from those 5 that all other religions and denominations sprang.

The 5 major roots are:
1. Shramana ascetics > Jainism > Buddhism
2. Early Vedic period > Brahmanisim > Hinduism
3. Ancient Israelite religion > Samaritan Hebrew religion > Judaism > Christianity > Islam > etc, etc.
4. Japanese mythology > Shintoism
5. Chinese folk religion > Taoism

And therefore, Shintoism can be considered one of the oldest religions known to humankind.
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

DNS wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:56 pm My favorite graphic of world religions is the World Religions Tree:
https://000024.org/religions_tree/religions_tree_8.html

If you move to the center and down to the bottom, you can see the ideologies that started it all; the first 5 major roots and it is from those 5 that all other religions and denominations sprang.

The 5 major roots are:
1. Shramana ascetics > Jainism > Buddhism
2. Early Vedic period > Brahmanisim > Hinduism
3. Ancient Israelite religion > Samaritan Hebrew religion > Judaism > Christianity > Islam > etc, etc.
4. Japanese mythology > Shintoism
5. Chinese folk religion > Taoism

And therefore, Shintoism can be considered one of the oldest religions known to humankind.
Yes, I like this graph. I wonder where Zoroastrianism would fit in as one of the oldest monotheistic faiths?
Would Confucianism be under Chinese folk religions?
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Re: Shinto

Post by DNS »

Lotodelsol wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:26 pm Yes, I like this graph. I wonder where Zoroastrianism would fit in as one of the oldest monotheistic faiths?
Would Confucianism be under Chinese folk religions?
I just checked, Zoroastrianism is a branch that comes out of Early Vedic period, around 900 BCE.

Yes, Confucianism would be a branch off of Chinese folk religions. It is illustrated at around 500 BCE.
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

DNS wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:22 pm
Lotodelsol wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:26 pm Yes, I like this graph. I wonder where Zoroastrianism would fit in as one of the oldest monotheistic faiths?
Would Confucianism be under Chinese folk religions?
I just checked, Zoroastrianism is a branch that comes out of Early Vedic period, around 900 BCE.

Yes, Confucianism would be a branch off of Chinese folk religions. It is illustrated at around 500 BCE.
Interesting, Vedic period, is Zoroastrianism considered a Vedic religion? It would be interesting because Zoroastrianism is considered by many to be the first major monotheistic world religion.
Then again, some forms of Hinduism are in many ways monotheistic (though perhaps not in the way Abrahamic religions are), for example Gaudiya Vaishnavism.
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Nicholas
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Re: Shinto

Post by Nicholas »

Lotodelsol wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:04 pm
DNS wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:22 pm
Lotodelsol wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:26 pm Yes, I like this graph. I wonder where Zoroastrianism would fit in as one of the oldest monotheistic faiths?
I just checked, Zoroastrianism is a branch that comes out of Early Vedic period, around 900 BCE.
Interesting, Vedic period, is Zoroastrianism considered a Vedic religion? It would be interesting because Zoroastrianism is considered by many to be the first major monotheistic world religion.
A thread on Zoroastrianism:

https://www.dharmapaths.com/viewtopic.php?p=7880#p7880
A true mind and true intent bring truth within truth. True practice and true cultivation take the truth beyond truth. True behavior and true conduct add truth to truth. In everything and every way, be true, true, true. Master Hua
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Lotodelsol
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

Nicholas wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:04 am
Lotodelsol wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:04 pm
DNS wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:22 pm

I just checked, Zoroastrianism is a branch that comes out of Early Vedic period, around 900 BCE.
Interesting, Vedic period, is Zoroastrianism considered a Vedic religion? It would be interesting because Zoroastrianism is considered by many to be the first major monotheistic world religion.
A thread on Zoroastrianism:

https://www.dharmapaths.com/viewtopic.php?p=7880#p7880
Thank you
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Lotodelsol
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

Lotodelsol wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:04 pm
DNS wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:22 pm
Lotodelsol wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:26 pm Yes, I like this graph. I wonder where Zoroastrianism would fit in as one of the oldest monotheistic faiths?
Would Confucianism be under Chinese folk religions?
I just checked, Zoroastrianism is a branch that comes out of Early Vedic period, around 900 BCE.

Yes, Confucianism would be a branch off of Chinese folk religions. It is illustrated at around 500 BCE.
Interesting, Vedic period, is Zoroastrianism considered a Vedic religion? It would be interesting because Zoroastrianism is considered by many to be the first major monotheistic world religion.
Then again, some forms of Hinduism are in many ways monotheistic (though perhaps not in the way Abrahamic religions are), for example Gaudiya Vaishnavism.
Found the answer on the Wikipedia article on Zoroastrianism: "The religion of Zoroastrianism is closest to Vedic religion to varying degrees.", and could also be considered a Dharmic religion, so really has aspects of different faith families.
Anyway, better get back to topic, Shinto anyone?
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

Something I found interesting is that there are actually some non-Japanese who have fully embraced Shinto, there is even a Shinto shrine in Washington state established by an American who actually became a Shinto priest, His name Is Rev. Koichi Barrish, the first non-Japanese Shinto priest according to the Wikipedia article on the shrine. The name of the shrine Is Tsubaki Grand Shrine of America.
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Re: Shinto

Post by Ajay0 »

Lotodelsol wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:00 pm
Found the answer on the Wikipedia article on Zoroastrianism: "The religion of Zoroastrianism is closest to Vedic religion to varying degrees.", and could also be considered a Dharmic religion, so really has aspects of different faith families.
Anyway, better get back to topic, Shinto anyone?
Zoroastrianism is not a Dharmic religion. India and Persia being neighbors, it is possible that certain practices were shared and assimilated.

But the religious philosophy differs.

There is no concept of reincarnation/rebirth or liberation/enlightenment in zoroastrianism. There is similarly no concept of Om or similar sounding words in Zoroastrianism.

These are the common characteristics of the Dharmic religions Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.

I do admire the Zoroastrian religion and adherents for its uniqueness, cultural depth and their philanthropy. Reading their scriptures gave some valuable insights as well.

The Zoroastrian tycoon Jamsetji Tata recently topped the 2021 Edelgive Hurun philanthropists of the century and is considered the top philanthropist of the last century with total donations of $102.4 billion.

Freddie Mercury , considered as one of the greatest rock stars of all time, and often lauded for his electric performance in the Live Aid program in 1985, was also a Zoroastrian.

I am glad that the thread on shintoism is up and running. :anjali:
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the (turbulent) mind. ~ Rajini Menon
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Re: Shinto

Post by Nicholas »

Regarding the Z religion and rebirth, go to that Z thread and see why rebirth is accepted.
A true mind and true intent bring truth within truth. True practice and true cultivation take the truth beyond truth. True behavior and true conduct add truth to truth. In everything and every way, be true, true, true. Master Hua
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Lotodelsol
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

Ajay0 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:17 am
Lotodelsol wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:00 pm
Found the answer on the Wikipedia article on Zoroastrianism: "The religion of Zoroastrianism is closest to Vedic religion to varying degrees.", and could also be considered a Dharmic religion, so really has aspects of different faith families.
Anyway, better get back to topic, Shinto anyone?
Zoroastrianism is not a Dharmic religion. India and Persia being neighbors, it is possible that certain practices were shared and assimilated.

But the religious philosophy differs.

There is no concept of reincarnation/rebirth or liberation/enlightenment in zoroastrianism. There is similarly no concept of Om or similar sounding words in Zoroastrianism.

These are the common characteristics of the Dharmic religions Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.

I do admire the Zoroastrian religion and adherents for its uniqueness, cultural depth and their philanthropy. Reading their scriptures gave some valuable insights as well.

The Zoroastrian tycoon Jamsetji Tata recently topped the 2021 Edelgive Hurun philanthropists of the century and is considered the top philanthropist of the last century with total donations of $102.4 billion.

Freddie Mercury , considered as one of the greatest rock stars of all time, and often lauded for his electric performance in the Live Aid program in 1985, was also a Zoroastrian.

I am glad that the thread on shintoism is up and running. :anjali:
Thank you for the clarification, yes me too, glad Shinto has a space on Dharma Paths.
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

Nicholas wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:54 pm Regarding the Z religion and rebirth, go to that Z thread and see why rebirth is accepted.
Ok, I'll try to check it out.
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

Ajay0 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:17 am
Lotodelsol wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:00 pm
Found the answer on the Wikipedia article on Zoroastrianism: "The religion of Zoroastrianism is closest to Vedic religion to varying degrees.", and could also be considered a Dharmic religion, so really has aspects of different faith families.
Anyway, better get back to topic, Shinto anyone?
Zoroastrianism is not a Dharmic religion. India and Persia being neighbors, it is possible that certain practices were shared and assimilated.

But the religious philosophy differs.

There is no concept of reincarnation/rebirth or liberation/enlightenment in zoroastrianism. There is similarly no concept of Om or similar sounding words in Zoroastrianism.

These are the common characteristics of the Dharmic religions Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.

I do admire the Zoroastrian religion and adherents for its uniqueness, cultural depth and their philanthropy. Reading their scriptures gave some valuable insights as well.

The Zoroastrian tycoon Jamsetji Tata recently topped the 2021 Edelgive Hurun philanthropists of the century and is considered the top philanthropist of the last century with total donations of $102.4 billion.

Freddie Mercury , considered as one of the greatest rock stars of all time, and often lauded for his electric performance in the Live Aid program in 1985, was also a Zoroastrian.

I am glad that the thread on shintoism is up and running. :anjali:
There is an interesting response on Quora regarding whether one should consider Zoroastrianism a Dharmic religion.
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Re: Shinto

Post by Lotodelsol »

Interesting, today I was watching coverage of the Tokyo olympics on TV and saw members of the US team participate in a Shinto ceremony.
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