Infallibility of Realized Beings

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Presto Kensho
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Infallibility of Realized Beings

Post by Presto Kensho »

If someone attains buddhahood or God-realization, does that make the person infallible on every possible opinion or position they give?

For example, the Buddha said not to say "bless you" when someone sneezes, which I think is pretty lame, but I am nonetheless able to accept his buddhahood if I am allowed to take this as his personal opinion, rather than his essential teaching.

Are we required to agree with everything a realized being says and does, regardless of how peripheral it might be to their overall spiritual message?
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Nicholas
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Re: Infallibility of Realized Beings

Post by Nicholas »

Source for Buddha on blessed sneezes please.
Truth is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
Presto Kensho
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Re: Infallibility of Realized Beings

Post by Presto Kensho »

Nicholas wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:39 pm Source for Buddha on blessed sneezes please.
It's in the Pali Canon. I'm sure that DNS would know where.
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Nicholas
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Re: Infallibility of Realized Beings

Post by Nicholas »

Presto Kensho wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:00 pm
Nicholas wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:39 pm Source for Buddha on blessed sneezes please.
It's in the Pali Canon. I'm sure that DNS would know where.
What is the source you used?
Truth is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
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DNS
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Re: Infallibility of Realized Beings

Post by DNS »

Nicholas wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:57 pm
Presto Kensho wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:00 pm
Nicholas wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:39 pm Source for Buddha on blessed sneezes please.
It's in the Pali Canon. I'm sure that DNS would know where.
What is the source you used?
Cullavaga V.33.3

But the Buddha doesn't make it a rule; it's more a suggestion not to do that, unless on customary, cultural grounds.
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Re: Infallibility of Realized Beings

Post by DNS »

The Buddha was infallible on the important stuff, Four Noble Truths, 8-fold path, that there is no creator god, no known or discernible beginning point, but other customs and cultural stuff is insignificant.
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Nicholas
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Re: Infallibility of Realized Beings

Post by Nicholas »

DNS wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:45 pm
Cullavaga V.33.3

But the Buddha doesn't make it a rule; it's more a suggestion not to do that, unless on customary, cultural grounds.
Even that suggestion to not develop or start the habit of rude thoughts, words or deeds during a Dhamma teaching is not insignificant, even for lay folk.

So I see Buddha as infallible in all regards. What is fallible are the reactions to his teachings by many, lay & monastic.
Truth is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha
Presto Kensho
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Re: Infallibility of Realized Beings

Post by Presto Kensho »

As a follower of Meher Baba, I don't agree, word-for-word, with everything he ever said.

Instead, I (at least) agree with the basic outline of his teachings as written in God Speaks and his other works, and I seek to live a life that reflects the way that he lived in this world.

Here is a relevant quote from Meher Baba:
Give up all forms of parrotry. Start practicing whatever you truly feel to be true and justly to be just. Do not make a show of your faith and beliefs. You have not to give up your religion, but to give up clinging to the husk of mere ritual and ceremony. To get to the fundamental core of Truth underlying all religions, reach beyond religion.
Here is the definition of parrotry:
Thoughtless imitation or repetition of someone else's words or sayings; mindless repetition. [from 18th c.]
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parrotry ... ion.%20%5B
Here is another relevant quote from Meher Baba:
There is no general rule or method applicable to all who aspire to realize God. Every man must work out his own salvation, and must choose his own method, although his choice is mostly determined by the total effect of the mind impressions (sanskaras) acquired in previous lives. He should be guided by the creed of his conscience, and follow the method that best suits his spiritual tendency, his physical aptitude and his external circumstances. Truth is one, but the approach to it is essentially individual. The Sufis say, "There are as many ways to God as there are souls of men."
If we are to give up all forms of parrotry, that should include thoughtless parrotry of the avatar himself.

Rather than mere parrotry, the ultimate purpose of following the avatar is awakening to the True Self:
Having no self other than the real Self (which is the aspirant’s real inner being) means that He is able to reflect back to aspirants their own ideal (Divine) self, and to provide the exact discipline they require to realize that Self.
https://www.babacentersite.com/methods
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Brahma Das
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Re: Infallibility of Realized Beings

Post by Brahma Das »

Our Souls are Eternal. Misunderstanding this many have devalued life and the exact world around us, for in fact everything is of a type of Soul, all phenomena from the very first have constantly borne the marks of tranquil extinction. I can even notice the Soul of a piece of calligraphy as a Buddha. Buddha taught non-self, then people started preaching no-soul to those with atheistic mentalities so that they could be saved as well, but this was done as an Expedient Means. Just because someone, even a Buddha, tells you something that brings one to the truth, doesn't make the Expedient Means used in the dialogue the Supreme Truth, although it isn't a falsehood or lie, it is called an Expedient Means. God is the most important person in the world to me, and so is everyone else because of it, and I consider myself a full Buddhist. If Guatama Buddha weren't God you would have no Enlightenment, and any Enlightened person knows that despite whatever philosophical or Expedient Means they are to use to deny it, and I'm not saying that's a falsity, even Jesus denied that He Himself was God, though now nearly every Christian proclaims that He is. So God Bless you all, forever, from the bottom of my Eternal Buddhist Soul. :group:
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